"When I talk with ex-accounting staff, the management used investor money to buy their personal stuff like villas or houses. The management asked their staff not to share any information with the investor side, especially consultants, telling them, If you share any information you’ll be fired. That policy stayed internal and I got a lot of information like that. Of course this research cannot provide all the information." - Hiroki Kato, Founder of Arches

"First of all people are young. But not only young, they’re energetic and believe in the future. They always expect a bright future, so their behavior is active, aggressive, and positive. That expanded my horizon because I was born and grew up in Japan in a mature market. In Vietnam the living environment is not perfect, but for me it is much more fantastic and much more fun than living in Japan." - Hiroki Kato, Founder of Arches

"Long story short, I had experience seeing issues in the market and at the same time wanted to solve them through one interview with specific people. I realized there was an issue in the market and a solution there, so I decided to do it. That experience changed my life." - Hiroki Kato, Founder of Arches

Hiroki Kato, Founder of Arches and Jeremy Au discuss how leaving a safe Japanese corporate career pushed Hiroki into Southeast Asia’s faster markets, where exposure to fraud, cultural contrast, and insider truth reshaped his view of risk and opportunity. They explore how Vietnam’s optimism expanded his ambition, why public data often hides reality, and how expert conversations became the foundation for building Arches. The discussion connects personal courage with business execution, showing how disciplined hiring, focused delivery, and human trust systems built a competitive expert network.

02:30 Leaving corporate Japan felt like social betrayal: Hiroki chose impact over security despite family pressure to stay inside an elite lifetime career track.

09:10 Vietnam rewired his ambition: A young, optimistic workforce expanded his belief in growth, risk, and personal upside compared to mature Japan.

12:45 Fake books exposed the limits of public data: Insider voices revealed hidden accounting manipulation and misuse of investor funds no spreadsheet showed.

15:05 Two expert conversations changed his life: Direct interviews overturned the company narrative and proved people beat reports in emerging markets.

18:10 Arches began as survival entrepreneurship: Freelance work funded the company while he built the expert network in parallel.

20:10 Overdelivery created early market wedge: Deep service to a few clients built trust and defensibility in a crowded expert industry.

26:00 Crisis permanently lowered fear of risk: Surviving near collapse reframed failure as damage, not death, unlocking bolder decisions.

Jeremy Au: Hello Hiroki, I'm so excited to have you on the show.

Hiroki Kato: Hello, nice to meet you.

Jeremy Au: I'm excited because actually you are the first Japanese founder that... Really? First interviewed for over 700 episodes. So, excited to have you on the show. And I'm curious about you because you're doing business. It's a network with over 250 people and it's covering, you know, all of Asia, Japan.

So I think it's really interesting to see you here in Singapore. Could you introduce yourself?

Hiroki Kato: Yeah, thank you for this opportunity. I'm Hiroki Kato, kind of an ambitious global entrepreneur from Japan. I'm running the company named Arches. It is a global knowledge provider. Then what I'm doing is connecting the people knowledge to the clients who are looking for the insights in each industry or topic. I run these companies globally.

Now fortunately we are doing very well. We have eight offices globally with 250 employees from 14 countries.

Yeah.

Jeremy Au: Amazing. Yeah. [00:02:00] So let's go back to the beginning, because when I look at your early academics and career, you look like every Japanese person. Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: So I was a typical Japanese person actually.

Jeremy Au: University of Tokyo, studying finance and, you know, and then you went to Sumitomo as a business analyst.

Hiroki Kato: Because anyway, I grew at the University of Tokyo. My father and brother also worked for governments, big corporates. That's why I had a prejudice: I should go to governments or big corporates, then work for my life. Yeah. But at the same time, I had a passion, or I had kind of concern about Japan's future.

As everyone knows, Japan's economy is mature enough, but it's not going well. That's why, thanks to our ancestors, we can enjoy a good economic life now, but I cannot hand over this good economy to my children if we don't make more efforts. So that's why, not only just going to the big corporates, I was also thinking how to make the Japanese economy [00:03:00] strong, or how to keep that Japanese companies should continue to bring good value to the global markets. That's also what I kept having in my mind. But that was my first career.

Jeremy Au: And what's interesting is that, you know, you were at Sumitomo.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Was the job, did you like it? Was it tough?

Hiroki Kato: When I started working, I liked the job because what they're doing is big, and makes a big impact on the economy. Especially I was engaged in oil and gas investments. I invested in the assets in the US to secure oil and gas assets for Japan markets. So that sounds very valuable and it sounds cool.

Actually, we invested 2 billion dollars for one asset. But actually what I'm doing is not so, I say, an important task for me or even for the project. Even if I left, I made no impact on the project. Yeah. That is the challenging part. That's [00:04:00] why, to be honest, the conclusion was not so exciting for me, but I know it's very important to run those big projects.

Mm-hmm.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. And what I just think is that, you know, there you are and you decided to leave Sumitomo, and that's a big decision, right? Because like you said, yeah. You know, I went to Harvard for my MBA and I know people who are similar to you: University of Tokyo. Yeah. You went to the company, they're going back to the MBA, and then they're going back to the same company for the rest of their life, right? Yeah. So it must have been a big decision to say, leaving Sumitomo. Yeah. Did you talk to your parents about it?

Hiroki Kato: Yeah. Yeah. I talked to my friends or parents. The first time, my big decision also the first time people told me I'm crazy.

In the beginning, I'm a big ambitious guy because I don't care which company I work for, but I like to make a big impact on markets. Or I like to, how to say, make Japan strong again. Like that. Mm-hmm. So that's why I'm the guy who takes actions based on my passions. So that's why people said that I'm crazy, but still supportive.

But the reason why in the past there's not too much entrepreneur in Japan is because the parents were working for big corporates. So that's why fortunately Japan grew very well before, and that's why most of my parents worked at established companies, so they expect the same things for their children.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: But like I'm based in Vietnam now, and most Vietnamese young talents, their parents are working in small business or family business. That's why for them it's quite natural to start business by themselves.

Jeremy Au: Right.

Hiroki Kato: So that's why from the beginning, the mindset is completely different. Yeah. Yeah, that is what I found after I started business and saw the people around me.

Jeremy Au: Fantastic. And yeah. So what's interesting is that you left and you joined consulting. Yeah. So tell me more about how you found this job.

Hiroki Kato: Yeah, actually I almost went back to the consulting firms. This means that I supported the consulting firm's foundation when I was a university student.

Jeremy Au: Right.

Hiroki Kato: At that time, the YCP audience... YCP is a very [00:06:00] small startup, with just five people.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: Then I was the first internship student. Wow. Then their office was the founder's apartment. Yeah. So I went to the CEO/founder's apartment every week as an internship student.

So that's why when I decided to quit big corporate in Sumitomo, I liked to start my own things, but still I know that I lack capability in terms of network or knowledge or everything. That's why I still wanted to grow my capability.

Then I headed back to that consulting firm because they're not just consulting firm, they're also startup. So rather than working for McKinsey, BCG, Bain, maybe this kind of startup consulting firm can give me more growth opportunity.

Actually, the founders came from Goldman Sachs, BCG, or P&G. So those top-tier talents in each sector, like finance, marketing, and also consulting, get together as startup staff. So that's why, for me, it was an ideal environment. And also I had a good relationship with the founders. So that is the reason why I decided to go back to that consulting firm, YCP.

Jeremy Au: What's interesting is that you became a consultant, which is a bit different from investing. In oil and gas, right? Yeah. So what was that adjustment like for you?

Hiroki Kato: The reason why I quit Sumitomo is, as I said, the company is big. Yeah. But I'm small.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: That's why what I like to do is start a small thing, then make it big by myself.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: But if so, we should know how to make a small business or small thing bigger.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: When I think about these things, okay, one idea is try to leverage capital money. But to be honest, because I studied economics and also finance, I felt there are a lot of intelligent guys around me. They go to Harvard MBA, then do very well at Excel sheets and financial modeling.

So I saw that's not my field. I can do some level, but I cannot be the top tier. So that's why I like to make a big impact where the business is not leveraging only capital, but also by people and by business, right? By myself. That's why I want to be more entrepreneur, not investor.

So how to learn to grow the business is working at a growing startup, or understanding issue-solving, like a kind of standard manual, like consulting firms. Then I tried to think, I want to learn both. I want to learn consulting skill but at the same time see how a company grows as one of the startup members.

Plus, for me, that company is more like a corporate, right? So it's not just consulting, because in the middle of growing the company, I can also learn how to grow the business too.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah. And what's interesting is that, you know, you were doing consulting for them and you moved to Vietnam as part of that [00:09:00] consulting job, which is your first time living...

Hiroki Kato: Yeah. As I said, I have a big passion to make a big impact to the markets. If so, we have to go overseas. I always feel Japan market is shrinking because of aging population, everything. That's why I have to go overseas.

When I joined a small consulting firm, for the beginning I dealt with the founders. I had a big passion to expand business overseas, and that's concerning the business itself. I like to go abroad. And also I like to support Japanese corporates to go abroad too.

So that's why I tried to negotiate with the founders. I wanted a chance to expand, to have a new office in growing markets. Before I joined that consulting firm, YCP, I tried to go to many countries: all Southeast countries, India, China, and tried to identify which market is attractive.

Then, yeah, I chose Vietnam, Indonesia, those great markets. So that's why when I joined the consulting firm, after I learned enough consulting skill, I asked, please allow me to establish those new offices globally, especially Indonesia or Vietnam. That is how I talked. I did it to have a chance to go overseas.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. What was it like in Vietnam when you first arrived?

Hiroki Kato: First of all, people's young.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: But not only just young, they're very, I'll say, energetic and believe in the future. So they always expect the future. So that's why their behavior is always, I say, active, aggressive, positive. So that makes me more, I say, broaden my horizon, because I was born in Japan, grew up in Japan, a mature market.

That's why Japan's living environment is good, but people look not so energetic or fun. But in Vietnam, the living environment is of course not perfect. For some people, that's a problem, but for me, it's much more fantastic. Much more fun than living in Japan.

Jeremy Au: Actually I find there's a lot of Japanese in Vietnam. I was surprised by that.

Hiroki Kato: Yeah. Actually Vietnam is a very popular destination for Japanese. It's good for both business and private. Private means very safe, nice weather, nice food, and living cost is still reasonable. So that's why many people are happy to live.

At the same time, from a business perspective, there's a very good talent pool who can have good work ethic and also speak language well. That's why Japanese corporates, well not only Japan, are very happy to have their factories or team in Vietnam.

We have the same concept because I really trust the people in Vietnam, their capability or mentality. That's why even for software services, there's a lot of Japanese companies hiring the tech talents there.

Jeremy Au: Fantastic. And what's interesting is that you were consulting there. You were learning in Vietnam and then you decided to build your own company. Yeah. So what happened there?

Hiroki Kato: Yeah, there's a long story, but long story short: I have experience seeing the issue of the markets. But at the same time, I would solve that issue by one interview with the people, with specific persons.

That's why, oh, there is an issue in the market with a solution there, so let's do that. That kind of experience changed my life.

Then if we talk about what kind of experience: as a consultant, I was supporting a private in Singapore for investing in Vietnam. Then I tried to grow their company by changing their organizational structure and business model.

But at that time I had a big challenge because of the language barrier and also the management was always not supportive for me. Also, I came to the company to grow together. Then after that, even worse: the management talked to my clients directly, “Hey, because of this consultant, my company cannot grow. That's why you should fire this guy.”

That's kind of an issue happening, but I believed what I tried to do is very valuable to the company. But something weird: I tried to get financial data.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: Every time I requested data, the data changed. And also based on what management told me and what I searched through desktop, it was a bit different in terms of market landscape or competitor landscape.

So that's why... but I'm new to the markets. I'm not a past expert in that industry. I'm not Vietnamese, so investors trust the message of management, right?

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: But still I felt something wrong. Then before I got fired, I tried to collect the expert voice.

I work for e-commerce sector. In this sector, I cannot get enough credible information through web. That's why I tried to find senior persons in that sector. And also I tried to find the ex accounting staff of the company by myself, a lot of time.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: Luckily I had a chance to talk with them.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: Then I asked a lot of questions. What's happening in these industries? Especially the competitor strategies, and how each company decided investment for these sectors.

Then I found that, wow, this industry is already, I say, a crazy game. Everyone invests a lot of cash without caring about profit, then just try to get share. Or if you raise big money, then trying to get share makes sense. If you raise small money, then invest small amounts and make nothing. That's what I got.

And also when I talked with ex accounting staff, that's what surprised me: the management used investor money to buy their personal stuff like houses. They also dealt with other firms and tried to make the slip books.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: Yeah. Then also the management asked their staff not to share any information with the investor side, especially consultants, to me. If you share any information, you'll be fired.

That's kind of policy. They stated it internally. I got a lot of information like that. Of course this desktop research cannot provide all information. Even AI cannot, even now, right? But anyway, with that kind of information, I tried to think about how to divide this company strategy and also try to prove that what they're doing is wrong.

Then finally, investor trusted my side. Then fired all management. Then I recruited the management by myself. Then tried to change the whole company business and also governance. That changed my life.

So wow, I talked with these two persons, changed that company, changed my life.

That is how I see the opportunity because these are growing markets. Obviously many investors want to invest in growing markets, but there's the challenge in terms of access to market insights or deeper knowledge.

But I see the solution. If I can provide people who are subject matter experts who can talk about the topic, I can solve it. That is how I see the opportunity.

From the beginning, I have a passion to grow small things to be bigger. That's why, oh, this is a thing I should tackle. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So it's long, but if I try to tell the story in detail, that's how I started a business for these sectors.

Jeremy Au: Fantastic. And before we talk about Arches and everything, I want to talk to you about what you said with these three books, right? Vietnam, and I find that a lot of Vietnamese companies have three books. One for the CEO only, the true accounts. One for the tax authorities to pay less tax.

And then third is sometimes, you know, for some junior employees. But often it's for external Western or Japanese investors, which have very nice numbers, right?

Hiroki Kato: That's true. That's true.

Jeremy Au: How would you recommend people figure out, because I think so many companies in Vietnam have two or three books... how would you recommend people figure out how to get into the reality?

Hiroki Kato: I'm sales, that's why I have to say expert interview, but actually true. To be honest, of course the company likes to make them look good. So that's why not only the information of our company, we have to get the third-party opinion. To be honest, the public information is limited.

Even if we use AI, AI is basically eating the public information. So that's why we have to talk to the people in that industry: the users, competitors, ex-employees, all stakeholders. That is a must way to understand the industry and the company.

Jeremy Au: And what I'm curious about is, now you're setting up Arches for these expert works that can help people figure out whether it is fraud or not. Tell me more about the early days when you're setting it out. How did you start?

Hiroki Kato: We started without having anything, right? Nothing. When I started a business, luckily I had confidence in my skills. So I started half freelance consulting, half trying to set up the new business.

At the same time, what I tried to do is these things I did: first, start like that. Second, try to invite the core members. What I did was I tried to invite one Japanese cofounder from Japan, then start a business together. That way I could speed up the growth double. That person is even smarter than me or reliable. That's why I don't need to give directions. I don't need to check what he's doing. We just monitor each other and trust each other. That kind of partner, I believe, speeds up the growth double.

Then third one: maybe three months later, start looking for funding opportunity. Because I was spending my resource 50% on another business. Although I got another cofounder, still I lost 50%. And also much tasks generally decrease productivity. That's why I wanted to focus on the business as soon as possible. So even at that initial phase, I decided to raise funds at seed round to focus on my business without any concern about my life. That is the three things I started first.

Jeremy Au: And when you look at building an expert network, what do people think they should do? Is it just recruiting the experts? Or is it finding the clients first and then finding experts? How do you go about building, because it's a two-sided marketplace, right? Clients and experts.

Hiroki Kato: This kind of matching business always has the topic of chicken and egg, which should come first. For me the answer is both, but start with minimum. Minimum good quality delivery and also good quality clients. That means I try to recruit a cofounder plus a few talents who have good work ethic, commit to the work, commit to quality. We just get a few clients. No need to get 10, 20 clients from beginning. We get two or three clients, then try to deliver, overdeliver, then give very good impressions of our service.

Then try to get the share of that client. Because I know this industry, I know there are competitors globally. That's why it's very difficult to get 1% share. If we just work with many clients, then just arrange one interview or make small sales, that makes no impact, because clients use another vendor too. That's why focus on a few clients, overdeliver, then we'll be the top vendor for them. Then once we are the top vendor, we shift to another client. That is how we started.

Luckily, this business does not require big investments in terms of system or physical assets, right? As long as we can hire people with good talents. Even our system at that time was very terrible, no issue, we can cover by great talents.

Jeremy Au: Yeah.

Hiroki Kato: With good work ethic and commitment.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. I think it makes a lot of sense. I think there's a lot of need for expert networks. It's a nice way to explain how to focus on the wedge and deliver a good experience.

I'm always confused because there are so many expert networks. GLG is a big one. Then I think Sealed Network. And a few others that have gone and migrated out from Asia as well. How do expert networks differentiate from one another?

Hiroki Kato: Simply whether we can offer the most fit experts, in a timely manner, at reasonable cost, is everything for the client. If a company can make this happen, it can win the race.

Then, whether we can find experts or not, and quickly, and keep operational cost reasonable. If we can make this happen, we can win.

When I used other expert networks as a consultant: first of all, especially in Asian markets, even GLG or any other players cannot always offer good experts. That's why I had to find ex competitors or ex accounting by myself.

That's why I know no company has a good people database here. If a company can build a system to recruit new experts for each project, it can win, because no company has a big database. But we need good people and a system, because at this timing we cannot recruit experts only by AI or system.

We have to talk, reach out to the expert, talk to the expert, and let them have a pathway to join this kind of knowledge sharing, talking about all compliance risk or all structure of this business. That's why I still ring up native speakers in each market.

Of course we should have a good system, but the company who can make a good team globally at reasonable cost can have competitiveness. That's why in this industry, still many players exist, but the company who grows well or is top-tier is either a fast mover for a good database, or a company with a good team.

In our case, fortunately we could make a big, good team in this industry, having a good office in a good operational center in Vietnam. I'm happy to talk a bit more. But anyway competitiveness comes from the global team who recruits the experts globally in a very, I say, productive way. That's more like a people business.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah. What kind of talent are you looking for? Is it experts? Is it employees? What kind of people are you looking for?

Hiroki Kato: Basically when I recruit talents, when I say recruits, it means I try to hire recruiters to our company, right? Because they're recruiters, they recruit experts.

As I said, this business is more like a human business. That's why whether we can recruit good talent, whether we can engage and enable those talents, decides our value or competitiveness.

So I like to hire good talents who can recruit experts well. What kind of talents work well? Basically my understanding is that I don't care about their knowledge of that industry. I don't care about a specific career. I care about their mindsets. They like to cultivate their clients, like to make results. That kind of goals, mindset, and work ethic is very important for whether they can perform in this business.

That's why I really care about their growth mindset. And also additionally, whether they're honest or not. Sometimes too much pride becomes an obstacle to growth. So growth mindset together with honesty, and having an ear to listen to others' voice: those two mindsets or personalities matter more than their previous career.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah. And my last question is, could you share a personal story about a time that you have been brave?

Hiroki Kato: The time I took that kind of brave mind was when I started business actually six years ago. At that time I was traveling to clients, right? I was almost fired, but at the same time I found a way to solve it. Then I started thinking, wow, nothing short of death is just kind of scratch, right? This means anything is not so big deal if I'm still alive, right?

Because that was a very challenging time. I really felt blue, but anyway there is a way to solve the situation. If I think too much, then I feel blue. But in the end, even if I try to do good things working at big corporates or consulting firms, this kind of issue happens, right?

So if so, I can try that kind of mindset. For the beginning when I quit the big corporates, everyone told me crazy, but anyway, I did it. That kind of mindset I always keep: nothing, everything is just scratch if I'm still alive.

Jeremy Au: Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. On that note, I would love to summarize the three big takeaways we got from the conversation.

First of all, thanks so much for sharing about your experience in Japan, growing up in Japan, going to Sumitomo. That's like every other Japanese person. And then deciding to leave. I think the fact that you are so honest about how everybody thought you were crazy, but you were able to have that conversation with your parents, thankfully, was really helpful. So I thought it was a very good way to share a very common Japanese young student and young professional experience.

Secondly, thanks so much for sharing about your journey towards exploring Vietnam. Almost getting fired for discovering fraud in the company, and how that was also a good moment for you to learn about a new country, new job, and a new crisis situation. So I thought it was really interesting to hear about that as well.

Lastly, thanks so much for sharing about building Arches, about the expert network. It was fun to hear about the founding story, but also some of the difficulties in building a two-sided marketplace. Chicken or egg, figuring out how to give the best experience, who to look for, and what teammates are the best fit for the company. So yeah.