"New directions are coming from Gen Z as they believe in entrepreneurship more than having a normal job, which can be a good thing because they want to create new ideas and solve real problems that customers genuinely need. They will likely facilitate the rise of more entrepreneurs, but they should stay aware and focus on solving real problems in their market and ensure the solution can scale to enough customers to succeed."
"Teaching is an important topic because Gen Z is very advanced; my son uses tablets and digital tools better than me, while his teacher is not matching his level. Tablets, digital tools and current teaching methodology still feel old, and teachers need to be updated and aware of new ways of teaching, including how to conduct effective remote teaching and present information in a better way that matches this new generation."
"Regulations are starting to promote startups and include them in the GDP, with laws changing to better fit the needs of new companies. Other countries like Saudi Arabia have an entrepreneurial license that reduces the cost of establishment and jobs in the first three years, and the Emirates, UAE and Qatar offer similar support. The atmosphere in the Middle East is helping and supporting startups to begin their work, and there are good grants and funding opportunities available."
Maged Harby, General Partner at VMS, joins Jeremy Au to share his journey from publishing to building one of the Middle East’s earliest EdTech venture programs, explain how Egypt and Saudi Arabia differ as innovation ecosystems, and guide founders on how to enter the region with cultural fit and strong partnerships. They discuss how EdTech adoption accelerated during COVID, why parents still steer children toward traditional fields, and how Gen Z is shifting toward entrepreneurship. Their conversation explores the contrast between Egypt’s talent depth and Saudi Arabia’s purchasing power, the need for localization in pricing and UX, and why Middle Eastern markets must be treated as distinct rather than homogeneous. Maged also outlines what he hopes to see next in personalized learning and why teacher training remains the region’s biggest unlock.
00:25 VMS: Corporate Venture studio based in Saudi Arabia and provide several program to help and support startup to grow such as Bridge program that support startups that need to expand their business to Saudi Arabia and other programs
03:00 Parents push traditional paths: Egypt’s university admissions are rigid and most families still guide children toward engineering or medicine.
07:00 EdVentures built from zero: Maged grew EdVentures into a major EdTech incubator and accelerator with more than 90 graduated startups and 23 investments.
14:00 Gen Z shifts to entrepreneurship: Young people are increasingly drawn to building startups and solving real problems instead of following traditional job tracks.
16:00 Localization defines success: Middle Eastern markets differ in pricing, UX, language and regulation which makes adaptation essential for expansion.
19:00 Competition varies by country: FinTech is saturated in Saudi Arabia while EdTech and health tech remain more open in Egypt and the UAE.
27:00 Teacher quality is the bottleneck: Universities must modernize teacher training so classrooms can match Gen Z and Gen Alpha digital habits.
Jeremy Au (00:00:00)
Hey Maged. I'm excited to have you on the show.
Maged Harby (00:00:02)
I'm happy and excited for this podcast.
Jeremy Au (00:00:05)
Yeah, and I think what's amazing is that, you had such a wonderful panel talking about the Middle East and the region yesterday at Ad Tech Asia conference. Excited to have you talk a little bit about your personal experience. Also, I think share people who are curious about the Middle East as a region from an Asia perspective. Could you introduce yourself?
Maged Harby (00:00:21)
My name is Maged Harby. I am the general partner at VMS. VMS is a corporate venture studio based in Saudi Arabia and Riyadh. We are focusing on helping startups to expand their business to the Middle East, especially to Saudi Arabia through a program called The Bridge. Also, we help and support startups through another program called Saudi Premier, and also we do investments in startups plus other partnerships with the government and private entities.
Before that, I was managing a company called EdVentures. EdVentures is a corporate venture capital focused on education. I started this position in 2019. Before that, I was the operation manager and I left them in December 2024. Before EdVentures, I was in Nahdet Misr. Nahdet Misr is one of the biggest publishing houses in the Middle East. They do the curriculums for the Ministry of Education in Egypt and other Arab and African countries. I was managing the rights department. I was concerned with getting the rights and the license from different publishers like Cambridge, like Disney, like National Geographic and others to have these books and curriculums to be distributed and published in Egypt and Arab countries.
Before that, after my graduation, I started my career at Google. I stayed a few months, then joined one of banks called Barclays and also stayed around two months and then left, joined EdVentures. Now I am at VMS.
Jeremy Au (00:01:53)
You grew up in Egypt?
Maged Harby (00:01:56)
Actually, I grew up in Saudi Arabia. I was born in Saudi Arabia in 1986. I'm 39 years old now. Father of two kids: Mariam and Marwan, one daughter and one boy. And I stayed at Saudi Arabia until grade five. Then starting from grade seven, I was in Egypt. I continued my journey in Egypt, then graduated from university and continued my career. But I returned back to Riyadh until joining VMS. That's it.
Jeremy Au (00:02:27)
So obviously now you're in education tech. But I have to ask, were you like a good student? Were you a naughty student?
Maged Harby (00:02:33)
Actually, I think I was a good student. One of the people who liked studying, doing the homework, having good grades, all of these things. And my target was to be an engineer. But in Egypt, there is something called a degree. In order to graduate from school to university, you have to bring a specific grade to go to the university that you need. But my mother at that time told me, "You have to get 90% in order to go to an engineer school." I was studying hard to get this grade. I got 91%, but at that time, the engineering school required 91.4% or 91.2%, something like this. So unfortunately, I couldn't join engineering school and decided to go to business school. Then I went to Business and Accounting school at Ain Shams University and graduated 2007. And that's it. I think I'm a good student.
Jeremy Au (00:03:32)
Yeah. You are a good student. You got 91%, that's a very high score. I think it's interesting because you wanted to do engineering, but you end up doing business. Do you feel like there's an alternate universe for everyone?
Maged Harby (00:03:44)
Yeah. Everyone at his childhood has something like a dream or something you need to do when he will grow up. So I thought at that time that I need to be engineer. In Egypt, every parent told their sons to be like an engineer or doctor, so I was following what they were looking for to do. And I thought that engineering is something good, actually, of course it is good. But after the change that happened, I think I'm at the right path and I'm happy that I am the graduate from Faculty of Business and Accounting. And become what I am now.
Jeremy Au (00:04:18)
Yeah. So no regrets about doing business. You studied university in business, and then you were with a publishing group. How did you get that first job in publishing?
Maged Harby (00:04:27)
Like anyone in Egypt looking for a job, like any fresh graduates, they told us, "You need to have past experience to obtain this kind of job." "How come, and I'm still fresh graduate and they mentioning that this kind of jobs is available for fresh grad?" I was applying to multiples of companies. I think I reached more than 500 companies applying for. Wow. And then before the publishing house, I found a call from Google asking me for an interview. And actually, I was not that okay, "Are they Google or not?" Yeah. And I found them. Yes. And I accepted and started with them. Stayed few months, then went to the bank. I was not that happy at this bank and started applying again until finding a job position called Rights Assistant. Yeah. And I don't know what shall I do position, but the job description related to what I can do. Yeah. So I applied at that time. And my manager there was Mr. Mamdouh, who taught me a lot. And I can say this after making this interview, I joined. Also, I made a secondary interview with the vice president of this company. At that time, Ms. Dalia Ibrahim, and got this position and then became the senior, then became the manager of this department, I think at 2010 or 2011, something like that. Then this department was not just making and having the rights and contracts with the international publishers, but also they added the BMO office to this department. Project management starting managing mega projects. It was a learning journey for me and I was happy doing that, until 2016. At 2016, I felt that I'm doing the same job every day and I don't like this kind of routine. I was studying different things. I think at that time I was studying a diploma at supply chain or something like that. I knocked out Ms. Dalia. She was my direct manager at that time, and she became the CEO of the EdVentures. And I told her, "I think I will not continue this job." And she asked me, "Why? Are you not happy?" I told her, "I'm very happy, very satisfied, but I don't like routine and need to do something different." She asked me to stay for a few months to see what we can do. And after that, she told me that, "We are going to open something called incubator." And I don't know what is the incubator or accelerator. I don't know anything about that. We took courses with the USAID and study tour to USA and also got another study tour to China to know more about incubators, accelerators, entrepreneurs, startups, all of these things. 'Cause I was a corporate guy and not familiar with this kind of business. So after that, she told me, "Do you mind to join EdVentures?" And I say, "Yes, I would be happy." And I joined EdVentures from the establishment. And actually today, 18th October, is the eighth anniversary for EdVentures. I remember that day. I continued the journey there, made several incubation cycles and acceleration cycling, and it was focused only for education and EdTech startups because EdVentures considered one of another atmosphere considered with education and publishing. So we are focusing on this sector. At that time, the number of EdTech startups was not that high in Middle East and not that mature also. So that's why we started with incubation and then acceleration to give them the chance to grow. The journey continued until 2019. October 2019. And then I promoted to be the general manager of this company. And the team at that time was two or three included me, myself. And they left—one of them married and another one joined another company in recruitment sector, then COVID. So I was alone until May 2020. Yeah. And at that time, I was updating and doing more procedures and process for how to obtain this startup, how to evaluate, how to know if this one will continue or not. Something like this. And then continued the journey, started hiring more people. And I remember Hamad, Saed, and Germana, all of these people and my friends until now. And we started the journey and continued the journey together under the supervision of Ms. Dalia, the founder and CEO of EdVentures. And we made several incubation acceleration cycles until I left this company. We were investing in 23 tech startups, and more than 90 startups graduated from incubation and acceleration. Huge impact happened in the Middle East, millions of users and customers got new knowledge. And I was happy about that because I love doing anything that we feel the impact. Yes, of course we are concentrated with the business and the returns and profits, but at the end, I'm looking for something tangible that can change the life for people. After that, I joined VMS and around half of the portfolio is EdTech. So I'm happy about this. And also have another one, health tech. So all of these sectors that doing impact, I love working with them.
Jeremy Au (00:09:52)
I think let's talk about that because you were very much at the forefront of education technology in Egypt, with the incubator, the accelerator, bringing those startups. So, how do you put it in numbers or a sense of what the landscape is for education tech in Egypt? Is it like the number of people or students or...
Maged Harby (00:10:14)
That's a good question. This was one of the important things I was looking for: how to know this ecosystem. What are the types of the companies and how we can say that this company could be related to EdTech or not. So I was looking for something like a framework, something to follow, and I found it with HolonIQ. They have the landscape for EdTech startups or sectors. There are 10 blocks. Under this, 10 blocks, you'll find 55 sub-sectors. So this was a roadmap for me to guide me to get the needed startups. And after finding this, I started applying it to Egypt and many region. Also, I partnered with HolonIQ to be a representative in the Middle East and getting the numbers, have partners, all of these things. They were very good people, Patrick and Maria, and very good people that we work together.
Then we found several ways to define the EdTech: one by grades K to 12, university, after university. Another way with the sectors: if they are related to jobs and recruitments, if they are looking for something like STEM or these areas. And for Egypt for example, if we look for a number of students, we found them around 24 million students in K to 12, and the number of teachers, 1.2 million. How to attract and solve a problem for this huge number of people is not easy. And how to convince them or tell them to use something related to tech because the culture behavior is not ready for them to study online. A degree of readiness to use EdTech actually COVID helped this to be faster. And the startups that we have invested in, like Enozom, like Zero One Eighty, like OBM, all of them had the opportunity to get a good number of learners and students. And yes, it works.
Jeremy Au (00:12:15)
Yeah. I think what's interesting is that we're talking about Egypt, from a population, from a teacher, from an education type perspective, but what's the cultural mindset of it? 'Cause I know, for example, people like to say, "Okay, Chinese parents really want their kids to learn. American parents really want their kids to be creative and play." How would you assess the Egypt parents' mindset for their kids?
Maged Harby (00:12:39)
Actually, if we will look to parents' mindset in Egypt, we'll find them, as I mentioned, they need their kids to be engineers or doctors. In order to reach this, they need them to join schools and universities. This is the norm in Egypt. So this is the thing that most of people doing. Other people have other directions. They need their kids to join international schools and then join a university in Egypt or outside. But at the end, the main goal is to complete their study until finishing university, not only the school. This was the main goal, and I think this also happening in many region, Middle East also a lot of people doing this.
Jeremy Au (00:13:21)
Very focused on the hero jobs of occupation.
Maged Harby (00:13:25)
Nowadays there is new trends regarding vocational education and they are starting promoting it. Still some people think the culture is not accepting this kind of education because he will work in the blue job area. Not all of people like this. But actually it is kind of job and they can gain a good income, similar to the other types. So the culture started accepting this kind, but not that much until now. But it is on the way.
Jeremy Au (00:13:54)
And what's the culture around entrepreneurship in Egypt? Is it thumbs up or okay?
Maged Harby (00:14:01)
The entrepreneurship, the field in Egypt. I think from my opinion, you'll find a great talents there. There is a great minds and they can do a lot of things with a minimal fees if you give them. Not a huge amount of fund. They can use it in a perfect way. Maybe better than if you give them 10 times of this investments. This one of things that I found and I faced with them. So you'll find a great minds. They can do a lot a great job for starting their startups and it'll work in a best way. Regulations there starting to promote startups and having them to include in the GDP and they are promoting it and started to change the laws in order to fit with the startups. They are on the way. Other countries like Saudi Arabia also have a license called entrepreneurial license to reduce the cost for establishment and jobs, especially in the first three years. Emirates and UAE are also having some things similar. Qatar the same thing. So I think the atmosphere in the Middle East is helping and supporting startups to start their jobs. And also there is a good grants and fundings that they can found there.
Jeremy Au (00:15:22)
Yeah. I was in the Middle East earlier this year for my holidays. I was in Oman and just having a great experience and I realized that, every country is very different in terms of culture. There's a history obviously, but also in terms of the economy structure. I'm curious because a lot of founders think about the Middle East as potential markets to expand or get to, but they see Middle East as...
Maged Harby (00:15:43)
Actually, this is a good thing that people need to go to Middle East. Yeah. But they need to be careful and study middle East. It's different countries and each country has its ways, its regulation, its culture. And we need to be aware and keen about what is happening there. A lot of people think that Saudi Arabia, a lot of money were found there. Yes, you can find this, but if you provide a good solution that can fit with this country, if not, you'll not find anything. Also, to reach the funding or investments there, you have to build good and strong partnerships and relations with key people in order to convince them with what you are doing. This is an important thing. It is not knock doors and have investments. It'll not work like that.
If I will go to the other side regarding establishing your business, you need to know if your product will fit in Saudi Arabia and in Egypt and in UAE or not. It may fit in Egypt, but may not fit in Saudi Arabia. You have to do some pivoting updates to your solution in order to fit this country. Maybe fit in a country with B2C and another country fit with B2B. You have to do this kind of study and to have a local team that they know the culture there and what is happening, what is important, what you need to know and what you are to ignore. All of these things is important and. Sometimes you'll find minor things that you think that it is not important, but if you didn't make it, you'll face issues or problems. Yes, it is a potential market, but you have to fit your products and know how to address this kind of markets.
Jeremy Au (00:17:25)
So when you think about these markets, do you focus on partnerships? Do you recommend that or going indirectly?
Maged Harby (00:17:31)
Having partnerships is important. If I have partners in each country and each sector, this could help me to address new customers, build new programs, having something different that we can do because cooperation and collaboration can do a lot of good things. If I'm coming from outside to inside this country, having a local partner is important to tell me more about what is happening if there someone having something similar to what I'm doing. Faced an issues or something like this, how to address or how to avoid these things. So partnerships is one of important things to do, plus having a local team also important. Not, it is not meaning having a huge number of people. No, you can have at least one. But this one team member could be your representative in this country to have the updates and do the meetings, all of these things. And the other team developers, other jobs that need the do not require you to travel could be at your home country.
Jeremy Au (00:18:36)
When you think about the mistakes that people make. What are the common mistakes that people make when they enter the Middle East?
Maged Harby (00:18:43)
If they don't know the culture, this will be the main mistake. Because under this culture, you'll find a lot of things. If I'm pricing my products here in Asia with $10, it means in Egypt 500 Egyptian pounds, which is expensive. So you need to do a lower price. But it could work in Saudi Arabia. This will be $10, 37.5 Saudi Arabia riyal. So you need to make it like 30 or 40 or 35. So you need to adapt your pricing. This is one of the important things. Another one is related to user experience and user interface. Because yes, it could work in my country in Asia, but not affect the GCC or Middle East countries. So this is also another important things. And yeah, we can name it under the culture is the main issue and main thing that we need to be aware about in order to avoid any kind of mistakes that could happen.
The competitors. Yeah. Also very important. Someone doing, for example, it is not related to EdTech, but something related to FinTech. If I have a very good startup related to FinTech, going to Saudi Arabia, most probably it'll not work. Saudi Arabia is very advanced in the FinTech, the government itself. Providing a lot of solutions in FinTech, but it could work in Egypt, could work in UAE. So this is also another thing important for the government, things for local competitors. Private also it is imported. If I have a solution like LMS (Learning Management System), I need to go to Saudi Arabia, for example. I will face a huge company called Cera. If I'm not ready to compete with it, I think it is better to go to another country because competition at this case would require a lot of marketing funding. Also require a lot of sales reps to go to schools to convince them with your solution and your solution should be fitting their culture. It could be in Arabic and match with Arabic terminologies, Arabic themes. All of these things is very important.
Jeremy Au (00:20:57)
Yeah, and I think what's interesting is that you obviously have a lot of experience both in Egypt and, Saudi Arabia. Could you compare the two technology ecosystems? As, for example, you said Saudi Arabia is better in financial technology.
Maged Harby (00:21:11)
Okay. I can say that Saudi Arabia is a good place to promote and sell your products and startups after matching it with the culture. And Egypt, you can find a great talent and the great innovative ideas. So if we can compliment both of them together, I think huge things will be happened. And this happened with the startup Youth, which is doing softer skills programs for university students and after graduation, and also Career 180 and OBM. All of these companies did a great job in both Egypt and Saudi Arabia. If they can partner or complement each other, this would be a great thing to do.
Jeremy Au (00:21:55)
What are the youth thinking in Egypt and Saudi Arabia? Thinking about entrepreneurship, 'cause I know that the parental still wants the kids to be doctors and engineers, but what are the youth, the Gen Zs, the people who are learning going through school now? What their dreams, what their ambitions.
Maged Harby (00:22:12)
Okay. I think new directions are coming from Gen Z. Gen Z now, I think they believe in entrepreneurship more than having a normal job. This could be a good thing because everyone need to do a new idea, need to solve a problem and a real problem in the markets that a lot of customers need. So I think Gen Z will facilitate having more entrepreneurs. But what I can tell to them is be aware and keen to do something, really solve a problem in your area or your market and have a scalable number of customers in order to to success.
Jeremy Au (00:22:51)
Yeah. And just different verticals. Are they just study I don't know, like tourism or education, tech or logistics fields, yeah.
Maged Harby (00:22:59)
Ah, the fields. The number one in Egypt is FinTech. And number five is EdTech. And health tech. Number six, sometimes number five and EdTech could be number six. In Saudi Arabia, there is also logistics. Yeah. And there is EdTech, there is yeah, supply chain. Yeah. Or health tech, of course. Yeah. You'll find these fields. So I think this area there is a good opportunities that the startups or entrepreneurs can found many solutions that they can provide. Yeah, so I think it is not related mainly on the sector, but for the ideas that can really solve the problem. But for myself, I'm looking for something related to impact. The economy for the people. And everything related to impact is good for me.
Jeremy Au (00:23:46)
Yeah. I thought what was interesting was that I was in Riyadh for the Rise Up conference and I was a speaker there and I think there's a lot of university students that was interesting because they were like looking at ideas both from. I guess the west and the east, right? Yes. Of America, yes. But also from China. Yes. I thought it's quite interesting because in America they don't look at China as very sure.
Maged Harby (00:24:06)
Yeah. We know this.
Jeremy Au (00:24:07)
But it is interesting because the youth were and obviously both, they are looking for everywhere. Yes. It's quite interesting to see that happening. What's the rise of Western and Chinese influence or the entrepreneurship?
Maged Harby (00:24:18)
Okay. I think the Chinese have a great talent and great solutions. They very advanced in new technologies like AI and deep tech and all of these new sectors. Also, if we'll go to Europe, we'll find something similar. But also I have the version that it is something like a puzzle. Yeah. If you put this piece and this piece, we can do a good frame or good thing together. So I think in Saudi Arabia, something like this through the 2030, and, I think good things would be happening.
Jeremy Au (00:24:54)
I'm just curious about when you see the future, like what are the hottest verticals or themes or hypotheses that you have? Does your investing in startups for the future for the Middle East? So I'm just curious about what are those themes they're looking for.
Maged Harby (00:25:11)
I will not say a thing related to the themes that I'm looking to invest, but I'm looking for seeing new startups for the personalized learning. Okay. This thing is something we know is coming, but until now we haven't seen something. Exactly. Something for my opinion, similar to TikTok, using something like the algorithm inside this app, but for anything related to education, if I'm concerned with engineering, medicine or any sector, this app can generate or bring videos or bring content related to this topic and know my level of in this subjects or this topics and can give me more information gradually until to be like an expert. This one of the things that I hope to find and to be related to the life that we live. Not only having a content and then go to the way like that. No. I need something. If there is a bus in the street, they can tell me something related to the topic I'm studying that this kind of buses using some kinds of engines that I'm just read about yesterday or if I'm studying math, they can tell me that the way of moving is using this kind of formulas. Something like this. Yeah, this what I'm looking for, and I know it'll come that when and where, I don't know. And hopefully to see it here.
Jeremy Au (00:26:36)
And when you think about. How do you think the education systems in Middle East could improve?
Maged Harby (00:26:43)
Teaching is important topic because as we mentioned, yeah, the Gen Z. It's very advanced people. My son using tablets and using digital, I think better than me. His teacher I think is not matching his level. Tablets or digital things, all of these things. Plus the teaching methodology I think it's still old, the teachers themself need to be updated and aware how to know the new way of teaching, how to do a real way to do remote teaching, how to give the information in a new and better way that match this new generation. There is a new generation coming after Gen Z, Gen Alpha. Yeah, Gen Alpha. I think my son is Gen Alpha now. This is one of the important things, how to use new way of teaching. Number of teachers is increasing. And it, this also will not reflect the teachers. This will reflect the universities and schools that educate and graduate teachers, the professors themselves need to be educated and aware in order to teach it to the people that become teachers and these teachers go to schools to have this cycle completed. Yeah. So it is important thing and we need good solutions for teachers or for people that need to become a new teacher on a new way of teaching, new way of teaching methodologies for people and student in order to complement and match with the new generations that are coming and new technologies.
Jeremy Au (00:28:17)
Fantastic. Could you share a personal story about time that you have been brave?
Maged Harby (00:28:22)
Actually, I'm happy with what I have done. Happy to see the impact happened for the startups that we have supported at EdVentures and now at VMS. Any impact that we can see in changing life or updating mindsets. This is a good thing for me. So I think the startups that we have supported, impacted more than 3 million people. I'm very happy and proud of this. And hopefully we can continue and increase numbers. Actually, I'm a person who would like to work behind the scenes. Yeah. This what I love to do. Yeah. I don't like to be on the front. Yeah. I love being behind the scenes, support everyone. Yeah. In order to do the things that we see at the end. And at the end, not everything happening is not depend on one person. It is a teamwork. So having a good team, right partner can do great things for the people, for the economy, for the country, everywhere.
Jeremy Au (00:29:21)
All right. Thank you so much. I'd like to summarize the three big takeaways. First of all, thanks so much for sharing about. The fact that you are a good student, you got 91%. And I thought it was just nice to hear about how you had dream of being an engineer, but you went to business, and you enjoyed it. But I thought it was such a good experience because it goes to the second point, which is really sharing about your passion for education, tech and how you have a passion for thinking about what Gen Z are excited to learn and already are learning. Versus the teachers versus the needs of the economy. I thought it was such a really interesting way to explain the needs of the students and the teachers for the Middle East. And lastly, thanks for sharing your broader advice about the Middle East in terms of not looking at as one big region, or looking at different countries, different economies, different histories, but also making sure that you're able to localize and adapt for each market as well. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you.
Maged Harby (00:30:12)
Thank you for having me. It is a pleasure being with you. Thank you.
